Audio recording marks latest blow to Trump in documents case

by Brett Samuels - 06/27/23 4:46 PM ET

An audio recording of former President Trump discussing a secret government document at his New Jersey club dealt the latest blow to his evolving and growing defenses against charges over his retention of classified information.

The recording appeared to undercut a claim Trump made a week earlier, in which he suggested he may not have had a physical document he was showing to guests without security clearances. Legal experts were quick to cite the recording, which was first published by CNN, as proof of the strength of special counsel Jack Smith’s case.

And while Trump has yet to face major political consequences since he was arraigned earlier this month, the recording is the latest sign that Smith’s investigation is one the former president will have difficulty simply waving away.

“This tape is not new evidence, and there was no reason to doubt the evidence alleged in the indictment, but it is damning and visceral to hear it, and it does verify that the Donald Trump national security indictment is well supported by solid evidence,” tweeted Noah Bookbinder, a former federal prosecutor and head of the watchdog group Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington (CREW).

More coverage of new Trump recording from The Hill:

CNN on Monday aired a two-minute audio clip of the conversation between Trump and others at his Bedminster, N.J., club in which he is heard saying “these are the papers” while discussing classified materials.

“I have a big pile of papers, this thing just came up. Look. This was him,” Trump says in the recording, referring to Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Mark Milley. “They presented me this — this is off the record but — they presented me this. This was him. This was the Defense Department and him.”

“See as president I could have declassified it,” Trump says in the audio recording. “Now I can’t, you know, but this is still a secret.”

“Now we have a problem,” a staffer says in the recording.

Former President Donald Trump speaks at the New Hampshire Federation of Republican Women Lilac Luncheon, Tuesday, June 27, 2023, in Concord, N.H. (AP Photo/Steven Senne)

Large sections of descriptions of the audio were already included in the Justice Department indictment unsealed earlier this month that detailed the case against the former president, in which prosecutors cited the 2021 conversation as an instance where Trump allegedly showed classified material to individuals without security clearances.

But the audio quickly undercut two of Trump’s defenses. He has repeatedly claimed he declassified any materials he took with him after leaving the White House, though the audio indicates he was aware he did not declassify the document in question.

The audio, which includes sounds of shuffling papers, also contradicted a recent claim Trump made to Fox News’s Bret Baier that he may not have had a physical document with him at the time.

“There was no document. That was a massive amount of papers and everything else talking about Iran and other things,” Trump told Baier last week. “And it may have been held up or may not, but that was not a document. I didn’t have a document, per se.”

Asked Tuesday in New Hampshire how the new audio squares with his comments to Baier, Trump did not repeat his claim that there was no document, but he instead maintained he did nothing wrong.

“My voice was fine. What did I say wrong on those recordings? I didn’t even see the recording. All I know is I did nothing wrong,” Trump told Fox News Digital.

The former president raged against Smith, the special counsel, on Truth Social, calling him “deranged” and accusing the Justice Department of inappropriately leaking information, though the source of the recording was unclear.

Legal experts viewed the audio recording as another significant strike against Trump’s defense.

Andrew Weissman, a former federal prosecutor who worked on special counsel Robert Mueller’s team that investigated Russian interference in the 2016 election, called the recording one piece of a “mountain” of evidence Smith’s team has against Trump.

“This is a question now of simply, will the government get a trial before the general election, will a jury actually follow the law and the facts, and will the electorate follow the facts and care? That’s really what this is about,” he said on MSNBC.

Trump earlier this month pleaded not guilty to 37 counts in a Department of Justice indictment alleging he violated the Espionage Act and obstructed justice in taking classified records from his presidency and refusing to return them. The indictment alleged Trump made false statements in a bid to conceal the classified materials from government officials.

The political ramifications have been less immediate in the wake of Trump’s second indictment of the year, with his first coming in Manhattan. In fact, there are signs Republicans have rallied around him as he faces federal charges.

A Saint Anselm poll of New Hampshire Republicans conducted last week showed Trump expanded his GOP primary lead in the Granite State, drawing the support of 47 percent of those surveyed, compared to 19 percent who backed Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis. A March Saint Anselm poll had Trump leading DeSantis 42-29.

“We’re leading by a lot,” Trump said Tuesday in New Hampshire. “I mean, I’d have to work really hard to blow this one.”

Still, even some of Trump’s allies have acknowledged the former president has weaknesses that could drag him down in the general election if he wins the GOP nomination.

“Trump’s policies are better, straightforward, than Biden’s policies,” Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) said Tuesday on CNBC.

“Can he win that election? Yeah, he can,” McCarthy added. “The question is, is he the strongest to win the election? I don’t know that answer. But can somebody, can anybody beat Biden? Yeah, anybody can beat Biden. Can Biden beat other people? Yes, Biden can beat ‘em. It’s on any given day.”

Tags Jack Smith