Anthony Fauci, the face of the federal response to the COVID-19 pandemic, is appearing before a congressional committee Monday for the first time since retiring about 18 months ago.
UPDATE: Fauci denies influencing COVID origins research
Fauci: Trump’s COVID travel bans were not ‘racist and xenophobic’
Throughout the hearing, Fauci has offered a spirited defense of the government’s response to the pandemic and denied any efforts to improperly influence the debate over COVID’s origin.
He also became emotional while recalling the threats and harassment that he and his family have experienced as he became a punching bag for critics of the federal COVID response.
In recent months, the House Oversight and Accountability Select Subcommittee on the Coronavirus Pandemic has made little progress in its mission of discovering the origins of the virus, but has made a series of embarrassing findings about Fauci’s colleagues.
Follow along for live updates.
Wenstrup: We need better health messaging
“Clarity matters,” panel Chair Rep. Brad Wenstrup (R-Ohio) told Fauci in his closing remarks.
Wenstrup said he wished Fauci had corrected COVID-era messaging that the vaccine would stop transmission and prevent people from going to the ICU and dying.
He also bemoaned politicization of COVID messaging.
“What should have been a 9/11 moment for this country, this pandemic, was turned into a political nightmare. … These are agnostic issues, not political,” Wenstrup said.
Hearing wraps
The hearing has wrapped, and Fauci has left the room after shaking hands with a number of House members and staff. The hearing lasted for about three and a half hours.
Minority staff decline to question Fauci
The staff for the Democratic minority members of the committee declined to question Fauci following the Republican staff’s 30-minute questioning of the former National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases director.
The minority staff were also given 30 minutes but yielded the time, leading to closing remarks from ranking member Raul Ruiz (D-Calif.).
Second heckler removed from hearing room
Another heckler was removed from the hearing by U.S. Capitol Police, loudly saying “Fauci, you belong in jail,” before exiting.
The heckler was a man in a black T-shirt. The outburst got Fauci’s attention.
“What is that? We need to listen to that?” Fauci asked the GOP staffer questioning him.
The staffer assured him the man was being escorted out.
Most GOP members leave hearing
Nearly all GOP members of the select subcommittee left the hearing once questioning by committee staff members began. Two members, including Chair Brad Wenstrup (R-Ohio), remained.
Five Democratic panel members have remained as a member of the GOP committee staff questions Fauci. A member of the Democratic committee staff will also be permitted the same amount of time to question Fauci.
Jordan grills Fauci on alleged lab leak suppression
Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio) demanded Fauci answer about the alleged suppression of information and pressure on tech companies to downplay that the coronavirus came from a Chinese lab.
“Why was it so important the virus not have started in a lab?” Jordan demanded.
When Fauci tried to say they still don’t know the origin, Jordan cut him off.
“It was important to someone in the Biden administration so much so that the top people at Meta, at Facebook are asking why we’re getting all this pressure to downplay the lab leak theory. … It’s certainly important to somebody,” Jordan said.
Wenstrup gives committee staff 30 minutes for questioning
Chair Brad Wenstrup (R-Ohio) has given committee staff on both sides of the aisle 30 minutes to ask questions of Fauci.
This move drew confusion from Rep. Kweisi Mfume (D-Md.).
“I … had an inquiry about whether or not I’m hearing things; whether or not you’ve just yielded 30 minutes of committee time to staff,” Mfume asked Wenstrup, who responded in the affirmative.
Fauci ‘took no great pleasure’ contradicting Trump
Fauci said he was “put in a very difficult position” that he “didn’t like” when he had to contradict then-President Trump, when addressing Rep. Jared Moskowitz (D-Fla.).
“I took no great pleasure in that, but I felt it was my responsibility,” Fauci said.
“I felt it was my responsibility, you know, as to preserve my own personal integrity and my major responsibility to the American public, to tell them the truth.”
McCormick questions Fauci about ‘ideological bulls‑‑‑’ comment
During the hearing, Rep. Rich McCormick (R-Ga.) played an audio recording of Fauci saying, “It’s been proven that when you make it difficult for people in their lives, they lose their ideological bulls‑‑‑, and they get vaccinated.”
The recording was part of an audiobook written by journalist Michael Specter.
McCormick asked Fauci if all objections to COVID vaccines were “ideological bulls‑‑‑.”
“No, they’re not,” Fauci said. “What I was referring to, in reference to making it hard for people to get education traveling, working, I’d say it very much was in context.”
Fauci: 1 million more would have died without COVID interventions
Fauci said if the U.S. hadn’t put in place any COVID-19 interventions and let the virus run rampant, “there very likely would have been another million people would have died.”
The the idea of “shielding” vulnerable people while letting the virus run unchecked in the rest of the population to gain “herd immunity” — something proposed by a group of conservative physicians who later advised former President Trump — was impossible, Fauci said.
‘Most insane hearing’
“This might be the most insane hearing I’ve actually attended,” Rep. Robert Garcia (D-Calif.) said. He told Fauci, “I’ve only been in Congress a year and a half, but I’m so sorry that you were subjected to those level of attacks and insanity.”
Garcia went on to say he thinks Fauci is an “American hero” who, with his team, has saved more lives than “all 435 members of this body on both sides of the aisle.”
Capitol Police threaten arrest of heckler
A heckler in the audience was threatened with arrest by U.S. Capitol Police.
The heckler, a young woman dressed in white, appeared to claim she was a doctor. She was not able to complete what she was saying before Chair Brad Wenstrup (R-Ohio) had Capitol Police escort her out.
As she was walking out, Rep. Robert Garcia (D-Calif.) told her, “You can take your Starbucks with you.”
MTG calls for criminal referral against Fauci for ‘crimes against humanity’
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) ended her time by calling for a criminal referral against Fauci for “crimes against humanity.”
She did not provide Fauci time to respond.
Her remarks were preceded by criticisms against Fauci’s attendance at a baseball game where he was seen not wearing a mask.
Greene referred to a photo of him at the game as evidence of his “repulsive, evil science.”
MTG refuses to refer to Fauci as ‘Dr.’
Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Ga.) pointedly refused to address Fauci as “Dr. Fauci,” loudly calling him “Mr. Fauci.”
“That man does not deserve to have a license. As a matter of fact, it should be revoked and he belongs in jail,” Greene said.
When Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-Md.) objected to her conduct, Greene called him “Mr. Raskin.”
Subcommittee Chair Brad Wenstrup (R-Ohio) reiterated standards of decorum in the chamber.
“The gentlelady will suspend,” Wenstrup loudly said to Greene.
Fauci says White House discussed challenging CDC 6-foot guidance
Fauci responded to Rep. Dave Joyce (R-Ohio) that there were discussions in the White House about the 6-foot distancing guidance that was issued from the administration at the start of the pandemic.
He reiterated that the guidance was ultimately from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and up to the agency to issue.
When pressed by Joyce on the scientific validity of the guidance, Fauci said it was “not appropriate to be publicly challenging” the CDC.
Fauci says length of lockdown measures ‘debatable’
Fauci defended the government’s various emergency measures to stop the “tsunami of deaths” early in the COVID-19 pandemic, but said the length those measures remained in place was “debatable.”
Rep. Michael Cloud (R-Texas) asked Fauci his view on the expediency of school closures, church closures, mask mandates and stay-at-home guidance after exposures.
“These were important when we were trying to stop the tsunami of deaths that were occurring early on,” Fauci said, adding, “how long you kept them going is debatable.”
Hecklers chime in
Rep. Kweisi Mfume (D-Md.) used some of his time to discuss the Tuskegee Syphilis Study to make a point regarding conspiracy theories relating to public health.
His remarks drew some heckling from the audience, with a member loudly calling for the committee to focus on COVID-19.
The U.S. Capitol Police officer in the hearing room motioned for the hecklers to be quiet, and Wenstrup called for decorum.
Fauci denies ever avoiding FOIA
In response to Rep. Debbie Lesko (R-Ariz.), Fauci emphatically denies ever trying to avoid a FOIA request, as National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases adviser David Morens apparently sought to do.
Morens had implied in his emails that Fauci preferred private communication on certain matters.
Fauci chokes up while describing harassment
When asked by Rep. Debbie Dingell (D-Mich.) how he felt in the moment, Fauci said he felt “terrible.”
This was in response to Dingell noting the amount of harassment that he, his wife and children have faced since he came to public prominence during the pandemic and the ire he faced from the GOP.
He appeared to become somewhat emotional when discussing the harassment.
Fauci ‘puzzled’ about question on beagle puppies
Rep. Nicole Malliotakis (R-N.Y.) asked if Fauci believed it was time for the U.S. to move on from “cruel” animal testing, noting the use of beagles for scientific testing.
Fauci said he was “puzzled” by the line of questioning and what it had to do with COVID origins.
The New York congresswoman said it had to do “in general with the amount of waste of tax dollars.”
Fauci said he signed off on these experiments because they were approved by peer-review boards.
Fauci evokes Jason Bourne
Fauci evoked Jason Bourne, the protagonist of the action-thriller blockbusters, while hitting back at claims about his response to theories of a COVID-19 lab leak.
“I’ve also been very, very clear, and said multiple times, that I don’t think the concept of there being a lab is inherently a conspiracy theory,” he said during questioning by Rep. Nicole Malliotakis (R-N.Y.).
“What is conspiracy is the kind of distortions of that particular subject, like it was a lab leak, and I was parachuted into the CIA like Jason Bourne and told the CIA that they should really not be talking about a lab leak.”
Fauci: ‘Conceivable’ that he spoke with Morens on his private email
In response to questioning from Rep. Nicole Malliotakis (R-N.Y.), Fauci said it is “conceivable” that he and David Morens communicated with private emails, because one of Morens’s functions was to write “chapters, medical scientific chapters with” him.
Castor knocks GOP for holding on to Fauci transcripts
Rep. Kathy Castor (D-Fla.) hit at the subcommittee majority for holding on to the transcripts of his closed-door January interview for five months.
She asked if he would like to comment on the 14 hours of transcripts.
“I don’t want to be casting stones, the distortions of what was said in that,” Fauci responded.
He did note, however, that the 6-foot distancing guidance that was shared at the start of the pandemic came from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, not him, saying that was one thing that was “distorted” in the interviews.
Raskin: GOP treats felons with ‘love and admiration’
Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-Md.) appeared to reference former President Trump’s recent conviction in New York when discussing the GOP’s treatment of Fauci.
“You probably wish they were treating you like a convicted felon. They treat convicted felons with love and admiration,” Raskin said.
His quip drew some quiet laughs from those in the hearing room.
Fauci says Morens repeatedly violated NIH policy
Anthony Fauci said his former senior adviser David Morens repeatedly violated NIH policy, under questioning from Rep. James Comer (R-Ky.).
Fauci said Morens violated agency policy by using his personal email for government business, as well as by editing applications for grants from the agency.
He also said other actions were “wrong” and a conflict of interest.
Fauci never talked about protecting EcoHealth, Daszak
Fauci acknowledged he may have discussed EcoHealth and its president, Peter Daszak, with his adviser David Morens but denied ever discussing “protecting” the organization as Morens claimed in his emails to Daszak.
Comer said he disbelieves Fauci’s answer and asked why he protected Daszak. Fauci responded, “That’s not true.”
Fauci also said he never engaged in the relationship between Morens and Daszak when asked if he was aware of it.
Fauci unsure if Morens was his direct subordinate
When asked by Rep. James Comer (R-Ky.) if David Morens was his direct subordinate, Fauci said he was unsure how it was structured on paper and suggested there may have been a lower-ranked official between him and the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases adviser.
Fauci also denied Morens’s claims that he could walk into Fauci’s office at any time he wanted, saying no one could walk into his office at any time.
Ruiz hits at GOP failure to prove lab-leak theory
Rep. Raul Ruiz (D-Calif.) hit at the GOP’s insistence on pursuing the lab-leak theory, noting how it has still not proven that the virus originated in a lab.
“The majority has failed to demonstrate or even credibly suggest that any of the viruses … possibly have been the progenitor virus,” Ruiz said.
He added that a lab leak could still have occurred, but viruses studied at labs funded by the NIH were highly unlikely to be the origins of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19.
Fauci: NIH never funded gain-of-function research
Fauci reiterated that the NIH never funded gain-of-function under the “regulatory and operative” definition of this sort of research.
He also stated that the review of NIH grants was conducted by “highly qualified and experienced program people several levels below me.”
Fauci: Trump’s COVID travel bans were not ‘racist and xenophobic’
Fauci said he supported the travel restrictions enacted by then-President Trump at the beginning of the pandemic.
“Were those orders racist and xenophobic?” Rep. Brad Wenstrup (R-Ohio) asked.
“No, they were not,” Fauci said.
Trump was slammed by Democrats and some infectious disease and public health experts for banning foreign nationals from China, as well as most travelers from Europe, the U.K., Brazil and Ireland.