Former President Trump said he was not holding a classified document he was referring to in a 2021 audio recording that is being used as evidence in the federal classified and sensitive documents case against him.
Trump told Semafor and ABC News in an interview Tuesday that though he referred to documents during the meeting with an author and book publisher who were working on a memoir of former White House chief of staff Mark Meadows, he did not actually have them.
“I would say it was bravado; if you want to know the truth, it was bravado,” Trump said. “I was talking and just holding up papers and talking about them, but I had no documents. I didn’t have any documents.”
A partial transcript of the July 2021 conversation was first publicized in the federal indictment against Trump that was filed earlier this month. He is facing 37 counts related to his possession of classified and sensitive documents at his Mar-a-Lago property after leaving the White House, including 31 counts of willful retention of national defense information in violation of the Espionage Act.
CNN first obtained and aired the recording of the conversation Monday.
Trump is heard on the recording discussing a document he said contained information about a hypothetical plan to attack Iran and saying the information was “highly confidential” and “secret.” Two members of Trump’s staff were also present during the discussion.
The two-minute recording seemed to suggest that Trump was holding classified information and was aware of its status as confidential information, but the former president said in the interview he was not holding a real classified document during the discussion.
“I just held up a whole pile of — my desk is loaded up with papers. I have papers from 25 different things,” he said.
During an interview with Fox News earlier Tuesday, Trump was asked about his reference to “plans” he had, and the former president said he was talking about “building plans” and plans for a golf course.
Trump said he did not have any regrets about the situation and did not have a classified document on his desk.
Trump claimed after the tape was released that it exonerated his actions, despite it seeming to reveal him acknowledging that he kept national defense information. He has argued that he was allowed to have the documents and declassified them, but classification status is not a determinant of culpability for charges under the Espionage Act.