Filmmaker says ‘rational conversation’ with Trump not possible after Jan. 6

A filmmaker whose clips of the Jan. 6, 2021, Capitol insurrection and interviews with members of the Trump family gained national attention as part of the House panel investigation into the attack said it’s no longer possible to have a “rational conversation” with former President Trump. 

Alex Holder, who sat for a deposition with the House Jan. 6 select committee last week, said in an interview published Wednesday with New York magazine that Trump now seemed to be “utterly irrational” and living in an alternate reality.

Holder interviewed Trump on multiple occasions, including twice after the Jan. 6 insurrection. 

“It’s very scary when people start to believe their own lies and when you can’t have a rational conversation with them — that’s when things become very dangerous,” he said. 

Holder said earlier this month that Trump would not recognize his role in encouraging the rioters who went to the Capitol on the day of the attack or accept any responsibility for what happened. 

Holder’s comments follow the Jan. 6 committee’s latest public hearing with Cassidy Hutchinson, a former special assistant to Trump’s chief of staff Mark Meadows. 

During her testimony, Hutchinson said Trump was repeatedly warned that his pushes to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election were illegal and could lead to violence. She also said that Trump was aware that members of the crowd at his rally before the riot were armed. 

Holder said those around Trump in the time before and after the attack had different views on his efforts to overturn the election. He said some were hopeful that Trump would be successful, while others were strongly opposed to his efforts and others were indifferent. 

“There was a sense of people feeling a bit scared of him,” he said. 

Holder said the violence that occurred on Jan. 6 was “inevitable” based on the rhetoric that Trump and his family were embracing. He said his film focuses on the president and his three eldest children, Donald Trump Jr., Ivanka Trump and Eric Trump.

The filmmaker said he believes the family let him film them because they expected Trump to win and wanted Holder to capture the victory. He also said not being part of the “media fabric” that they distrusted may have helped gain their trust. 

Holder said on a Yahoo News podcast on Wednesday that Trump is incapable of recognizing that his claims of voter fraud are false and is living in “cloud cuckoo land.” He said his recordings show Trump genuinely believes his claims. 

“Donald Trump is not a rational player. I mean, he just isn’t,” he said.